Here’s Why The 2017 Honda Civic Type R Doesn’t Have Torque Steer
Honda Civic Type R Review –
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From The Honda Civic Type R Press Kit:
“Front and Rear Suspension – Specially equipped with an Adaptive Damper System (see below), the Civic Type R front and rear suspension systems provide exceptional handling that puts the new model at the top of its competitive segment, which includes benchmark American, European and Japanese sport-compact competitors.
In front, dual-axis struts contribute to the Type R’s highly responsive steering, while also optimizing component packaging and crash performance. In back, a multi-link system provides exacting handling characteristics, while also helping maximize second-row seating and cargo space. Firmer spring and bushing rates, additional suspension camber and front steering caster, and stiffer front and rear stabilizer bars, sharpen turn-in response while minimizing body roll during cornering. The front and rear stabilizer bars are bonded to their mounting bushings and use low-friction connecting links for smoother operation.
While the new Type R suspension clearly has a keen sporting edge, it doesn’t come at the expense of comfort. On the road, the Type R provides an accommodating cabin environment – along with the great cargo utility you would expect from its 5-door hatchback design.
Dual-Axis Strut Front Suspension
The dual-axis strut front suspension was designed especially for the Type R. It features aluminum knuckles, strut forks and lower arms, and has special geometry optimized for sport handling that includes more initial negative camber for crisper turn-in, and more caster, which adds stability. Although the front track is more than 2 inches wider than that of the Hatchback LX, a ¾-inch reduction in steering axis offset (each side) greatly reduces torque steer. The lower suspension arms are aluminum, and the Type R uses a 29.0mm tubular stabilizer bar.
The front spring rates are twice as stiff as those of the Civic Hatchback LX and the large diameter lightweight hollow stabilizer bar is 1.7-times stiffer. The specially tuned Adaptive Damper System (see below) helps the Type R excel on the street and track by allowing different, optimized damping curves that also adjust automatically to suit conditions while driving, based on steering input, lateral G and suspension stroke.
Multi-Link Rear Suspension
Specially tuned for the Type R, the multi-link rear suspension provides nimble handling in city driving, precise response for sport driving and emergency maneuvers, and the ultimate in track performance in the +R drive mode. Mounted on a rigid subframe, the system incorporates stamped-steel control arms, aluminum hub carriers and a 20.5mm solid stabilizer bar, which helps provide crisp turn-in along with body roll control.
Compared to the Civic Hatchback LX, unique rear suspension tuning for the new Civic Type R includes a 1.6-times higher spring rate, a 2.4-times higher stabilizer bar rate, and bushings that are over twice as firm. In addition, the Type R rear control arms are supremely rigid, the rear track is 1.2-inches wider, and more negative wheel camber is utilized – all to increase handling response, cornering agility and overall stability.”
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Hope everyone's day is going well! As mentioned but not discussed in the video, there are reasons why you may not want a scrub radius of zero. I've explained that in a separate video for those who are curious about it: https://youtu.be/SUDMEd1bMZI
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Dear, congratulations on the research, organization, and presentation of the material. It turned out incredibly professional! Thank you very much!
Alfa Romeo still made better front en becqus it actualy goes and uses high double wishbone, you should make a video of that the 156/147/GT family have incredible sohpisiticated geometry strut only does the damping stuff and wishbones do the geometry seperated.. plus upper w8shbone is placed the way with compresion it doesnt only gain camber but also caster.
All I searched on was "How to downsize from 20in wheel and upsize the tire?" You threw a handful of terms I never heard of even in my physics class 45 years ago! My pickup truck is a 2005 GMC Sierra 1500 VHO 6.0L RWD extended cab, which has the Performance Edition Package. The tires are 275/55r20 and I was wondering if I could swap out to a smaller rim/wheel and get a tire with a bigger sidewall? Thank you
If the scrub radius is equal on both sides, the torque from each side will cancel out. So, no torque steer will occur.
4:32 Direct comparison
a front heavy front wheel drive car needs a little negative scrab radius. Not zero. secondly, the zero torgue steer isn't a result of the double axis mcstruts, but it is the result of the limited slip differential. The seperation of the steering from the bump reaction doesn't offer any benefit. Only makes the suspension a fairly amount more heavy and complicated. And for what? To be able to look like a double wishbone suspension but not a double wishbone suspension. And a double wishbone suspension would have been far less heavy, far less complicated and far less expensive to put. That is why ford ditched it , toyota ditched it first (superstrut) and now opel (ex gm) and renault. Audi had a similar design but that only remained on paper, cause in reality it didn't make any benefit.
chaeper alternative is Awd or RWD
Thats awesome. Unfortunately my elantra n has a decent amount of torque steer.
Lsd?
As a retired aircraft mechanic I can say that I cannot get it thru my head why my fk8 doesn’t pull to the left😂😢
To eliminate torque steer, get a real car.
Ah, this explains why my engine swapped Insight is so easy to corner hard underpower to the right but have to really lean into it on left handers. I'm excited to get my New FL5 Type R delivered to check this out.
Will it still have torque steer if from a stand still/Low speed, you accelerate, but one wheel is on High grip surface and one on Low grip? Like If the Right wheel is on the road, Left wheel on Grass, steering would turn to the Left?
Does this mean that wheel spacers can exacerbate torque steer?
The old Lincoln Continental with the 4.6 FWD had so much torque steer but it was torque back to straight.
Because they copy Renault
I test drove one for a day and it has the worst torque steer I’ve ever experienced. To the point it almost went into the other lanes next to me. Maybe mine was broken
it has no torgue steer because it has a limited slip differential. dual axis mcstrut does not offer anything better than a conventional strut. that is why ford ditched it and gm also.
are you absolutely sure its torque steer? lsd is giving exactly same feel
does anyone know if i can put factory type R suspension from a mark 9 onto a normal 1.8 mark 9 hatchback ie will it bolt straight on? can i get new springs and dampers and just replace them?
I have worked on suspension design and I have never seen spindle length/offset being used in moment calculation. Can you share your source on this one?
>plays forza
>torque steer stock
HMMMMM
Calling front wheel as driven wheel, is it right terminology? Shouldn’t it be driving wheel and rear in that case would be driven wheels? I am trying to get the context.
Honda FK2 system vs. megane 275 Trophy perfohub vs Focus mk2 rs revoknuckle? Which is the best?
The torque steer you're referenced here could easily be avoided if honda used different type of lsd…
Very interesting, and comprehensive. I have a fairly high powered classic Mini with considerable torque steer, i.e. pulls right on hard acceleration, pulls left on sudden deceleration. According to David Vizard's Mini book, one reason not mentioned by anyone else, is that the crown wheel & pinion are helical gears. Thus you get side loading on the bearings to one side on acceleration, and to the other side on deceleration – the friction in the bearings being unequal. Having replaced all bushes, bearings, CV joints, mountings, 4 pin diff, tie rod bushes (firm), moving parts, everything, it still had some torque steer, less than before, but noticeable. IN THE END, I increased the torque on all the side plate flange bolts – carefully, cos the bolts go into aluminium – increasing the pre-load, and that has almost completely eliminated the torque steer, unnoticeable in normal driving. Hope this helps, and thanks for the vid.
I thought torque steer was and Awd or Fwd system where torque is biased to the outer wheel in corners
moped
Never owned a fwd but thats not really torque steer its caster causing that you have enough caster to counter act the kpi centering at that speed it going to the outside because the car want to continue turning the ideal line is usually to follow that space for whatever speed because you car isn't experiencing any understeer. So you are being pushed around the corner rather than pulled so if you loose traction momentarily you won't change directly. It's usually how you drift and the reason it so much easier with more caster you can feel it more easily with less traction.
is that double wishbone? What's the name of the front suspension type?
My megane had no t steer first and my neighbour has one of these
Tq for such a great video. I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but would the addition of a limited slip differential also help with reducing the torque steer?